Curse

BeatWolf · Dec 01, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Once the addiction of GW takes you, youv'e had it. I find this game boring as hell now, but i play it all the fricking time! im addicted to this shit and it's not funny.

And i don't even care how good the next chapter is, i'll most prob still be playing this crap.

Roza · Dec 01, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

[QUOTE=BeatWolf]Once the addiction of GW takes you, youv'e had it. I find this game boring as hell now, but i play it all the fricking time! im addicted to this shit and it's not funny.[QUOTE]

In which case you should deinstall the game, switch of your PC and go do something completely different. And if you can't, you should go see a therapist or something. It is called addiction: you do something which you don't even like out of habit and/or compulsion. Trust me, I know (I smoke)...

BeatWolf · Dec 01, 2005, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Yeah, and come back when you have quit smoking, and tell me how hard it was :P

jesh · Dec 01, 2005, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Eww.. I hope you mean mary jane and not cigarretes, at least those don't taste like butt.

Dax · Dec 01, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

There are plenty of other games to get fixated on.

Vorlin · Dec 01, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52

I was the one that posted earlier about more social bonding in Muds. I've thought about this in regards to GWars because it's something that I care about, but the GWars enviroment just doesn't foster such a thing. Not because GWars isn't designed right, it's just that it choose a path that tends to make long-term social interaction difficult.

For instance, I like to make a 'helper' character for any Mud I play, one that has maxxed their level and then spends their time spelling up lowbies, healing them, or gathering gear for them. I do this by hanging around the central town, since everyone passes through there it's easy to find me and easy for me to find them. There is no central place in GWars, you can't spell up or heal in-town, and since gear drops are random you can't quickly run out and grab a 'Helm Of Power' or whatever. And if you try to give gear to lowbies you'll more than likely be giving it to someone who already has 500k in the bank and 3 characters and is just taking your free item so they can resell it.

The closest I've come to being a 'helper' character was taking my level 20 E/Me and helping lowbies do the Althea's Ashes run. Now that worked out just fine, barring the occasional idiot but as a helper you learn to live with the few that just can't be helped. I think other people play the 'helper' by hanging around the Ascension quests and organizing groups to get people through them, and by giving free (or very cheap) runs to Droknar's.

But because GWars is so big, and because you log into each town in a random zone, the various 'social' groups just never coalesce into anything larger. There's just no sense of community in-game, the very success of GWars results in a mob instead of a community.

Some people might say "Join a guild", my reply to that is that you aren't forming a community there you are forming a clique, in a way that's the opposite of what I'd like to see. I think the guild mentality is why you see so much ridiculous 'I'm leet!!!' bullshit being toss around, they don't feel like they are a part of a community they feel they are -superior- to the community.

So much as I'd like to see a real community develop in GWars I'd say the game engine and the sheer number of people involved will ensure that for the indefinite future any civilized behaviour will be found only in isolated incidents. Which is a shame, because one of the best remedies to level 20 boredom would be a community that you could put your skills and power to work for.

Dax · Dec 01, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

I was the one that posted earlier about more social bonding in Muds. I've thought about this in regards to GWars because it's something that I care about, but the GWars enviroment just doesn't foster such a thing. Not because GWars isn't designed right, it's just that it choose a path that tends to make long-term social interaction difficult.

For instance, I like to make a 'helper' character for any Mud I play, one that has maxxed their level and then spends their time spelling up lowbies, healing them, or gathering gear for them. I do this by hanging around the central town, since everyone passes through there it's easy to find me and easy for me to find them. There is no central place in GWars, you can't spell up or heal in-town, and since gear drops are random you can't quickly run out and grab a 'Helm Of Power' or whatever. And if you try to give gear to lowbies you'll more than likely be giving it to someone who already has 500k in the bank and 3 characters and is just taking your free item so they can resell it.

The closest I've come to being a 'helper' character was taking my level 20 E/Me and helping lowbies do the Althea's Ashes run. Now that worked out just fine, barring the occasional idiot but as a helper you learn to live with the few that just can't be helped. I think other people play the 'helper' by hanging around the Ascension quests and organizing groups to get people through them, and by giving free (or very cheap) runs to Droknar's.

But because GWars is so big, and because you log into each town in a random zone, the various 'social' groups just never coalesce into anything larger. There's just no sense of community in-game, the very success of GWars results in a mob instead of a community.

Some people might say "Join a guild", my reply to that is that you aren't forming a community there you are forming a clique, in a way that's the opposite of what I'd like to see. I think the guild mentality is why you see so much ridiculous 'I'm leet!!!' bullshit being toss around, they don't feel like they are a part of a community they feel they are -superior- to the community.

So much as I'd like to see a real community develop in GWars I'd say the game engine and the sheer number of people involved will ensure that for the indefinite future any civilized behaviour will be found only in isolated incidents. Which is a shame, because one of the best remedies to level 20 boredom would be a community that you could put your skills and power to work for.

Agreed, there is no real community/dependancy. Once you're out in the wilderness, it's rather quiet. I've rarely seen people communicate in towns (when I actually have my chat up) except 'lfg', 'how much' and 'what's in it for me'. And yes, I'm sure chapter 2 will be the same.... lets all start worring about it.

Sir Skullcrasher · Dec 01, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

So what type of level cap increase do people want? level 50, 100?

Mordakai · Dec 01, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Oh, and BTW - GW has sold a million copies. WoW has over FOUR MILLION players. GW isn't going to catch up to that, no matter what you *wish* would happen. Do I think GW is a superior game over WoW? Can't say, I don't play anything other than GW. But apparently four times as many people apparently think not.

I've posted this before, it's just not fair to compare WoW to GW.

WoW has the whole Blizzard fanbase going for it. I mean, nothing can compete directly against WoW in terms of numbers (What are EQs numbers compared to WoWs?)

Also, for those complaining about lack of a community: hello! Read these forums! Full of people who give advice, offer help on quests, etc.

In game too, I've found level 20s willing to help me run through the early missions of the game (since I've already done them with other chars). Just look around, there is a community here.

As long as Chapter 2 gives new Professions with different playing styles, more quests (Some open ended game play? Quests close and open depending on past quests completed? Different endings?), and, yes, more stuff, it will do just fine.

Frankly, Mimi, I don't get your complaint about stuff. I'd much rather the "grind" be about things that don't really matter.... that way, we are not forced to participate! We can play the game we want (the way I like to play is make a character, play until I get bored, sell his stuff, delete character, make new character). To me, it's not about getting perfect weapons or the best looking armor, it's trying different combos of skills, and exploring the world. Rare drops are just icing on the cake for exploring, not the end all of GW....

In the end, it's impossible to please everyone. The best Anet can do is please their core fan base, and work to expand it. Only time will tell if they succeed in that endeaver or not.

Severra Timarre · Dec 01, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

Sorry for only responding to one point but...as I stated before, ANet's #s are completely misleading. It doesn't account for a person's storage, and what it contains, beyond gold. Three black dyes shatters that myth. The truth probably can't be realistically be measured, but judging by the amount of people running around wearing FoW armor - at least 15K armor - I'd say that almost everyone has at least 20-50K of "stuff", whether it's gold, items, armor, runes, etc. But that's just a guess.

Okay, thats a good point. But even with JUST the gold numbers, it provides a fairly good insight into just how few gold farmers there are in the game. Really, in my experiences with item farmers, etc, they dont really waste time turning their items into cash, except for ectos and shards, which they normally save for their own FoW or for over 100k transactions.

If I counted up all the items on my account, the only really valuable stuff in it is my 3 sets of 15k armor, and a couple of fairly good weapons. Maybe 300k of stuff, at the max, more like 250, IMO. Now about 120k of that was given to me by guildies who enjoyed giving me money for armor, because they dont have much else to do with their cash.
Another 55k of that was earned by me doing runs in the crystal desert for cash, which I did for the sole purpose of earning my 15k armor sets.
And 45k from sale of a sup vigor that I got on a totally lucky drop.
So, thats around 30k that I earned just by playing the game, on 3 characters, I'm not counting the toons I deleted here, because almost all of their cash that I earned with them went to a sigil for my first guild.

So, 10k per character, by playing through the early game(ascalon to desert, south shiverpeaks, RoF not included). Now if you ever got lucky enough to get a good rune or a black dye or 2(I never got a black dye, in all my playtime of GW, including the betas!), With the new key system, you're even more likely to get a good gold drop or two, so average worth of a character that just made it to droknars forge should be around 15k. And there you have all your basic weapon, skill purchasing, and rune needs covered.
That fits with my previous numbers, which only covered gold, so dont make any complaints about me being inconsistent, okay?

I'm counting myself as a fairly average player here, because I do most of the quests, dont skip many missions, except for gates of kryta, ew. And I don't spend my time grinding for cash, except when I really want to get another set of 15k armor.

So for someone with three characters, thats around 45k to 50k of stuff, which happens to fit your estimation quite accurately. However, thats STILL the average worth you should get by playing through the game!

Now these average players go out on a couple of skill capping missions, get their elite skills, and guess what? They're ready to PvP, they're ready to do UW/FoW, they're ready to finish the PvE storyline, they're equal to any other player in the game, as long as they can find someone that wants to use their playstyle.(even a suicidal wammo can be used, although normally only as a deathnova bomb.)

A non-average player goes through the game twice with their first two characters, probably a warrior and a monk, because they are the best farmers, then run the rest of their characters to droks, a PvP fan will try to unlock as many skills as possible, a PvE fan will then get PLed, ascend, and go do FoW and UW.
So for someone that sticks with the game, playing it 10 hours a day, theres not too much to do. For a casual player, who likes to chill with the socializers, play maybe 2-5 hours a day, we do exist, just check out the more relaxed outposts and you can find us somewheres, theres still quite a bit left at this time point.

And thats where the key point of this game lies. It is what you make it. You could perfectly well drop it and go play another game until chapter 2 comes out, GW doesnt demand all your time, you could play at a slow, relaxed pace with a group of friends, try RPing through the missions, it can actually be a LOT of fun.

Or, you could go and run on the grindmill for perfect weapons, full sets of FoW for all of your three acounts, full collections of runes, black-black-black silver dye on everything you own, and start complaining about how the game is only grind. Thats you whiners here, and its quite a few other people I've seen, but they're the ones who cost Anet money, they arent the ones who feed it money for less server time, they're the ones who Anet wont miss in the long run, because they do not promote a newbie friendly community, they do not promote a healthy economy, and they dont really promote a healthy PvP enviroment, due to their elitist attitudes.

I'm looking forward to chapter 2, I'm looking forward to new cosmetics, I'm looking forward to changes in the game system, but above all, I'm looking forward to seeing the grinders drop out, and the enviroment become healthy again.
I said a while ago that I was going to pre-order chapter 2, and I ws immediately asked, "You're going to pre-order it?" as if it was a dumb thing to do. But after reading this thread and seeing all the people who are threatening to quit if it doesnt offer real character advancement beyond the level 20 status quo, my answer is even more emphatically YES!

Chapter 2 forever!

DISCLAIMER: This post is not meant as a personal attack on Mimi Miyagi or any other grinder, it just reflects my views on the typical grinder, and by no means do I mean to imply that all grinders are evil people who want to destroy the world. Just a lot of them are really unfriendly and stuff.
Also, the 55k I earned in the crystal desert by running people was a heartily enjoyable experience, and I stopped doing it as soon as I became bored and it started feeling like a chore, so it really doesnt count as grind to me, although it may to some of you other people.

Loviatar · Dec 01, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severra Timarre

I'm looking forward to chapter 2, I'm looking forward to new cosmetics, I'm looking forward to changes in the game system, but above all, I'm looking forward to seeing the grinders drop out, and the enviroment become healthy again.
I said a while ago that I was going to pre-order chapter 2, and I ws immediately asked, "You're going to pre-order it?" as if it was a dumb thing to do.

Chapter 2 forever!
.

as will i preorder chapter 2.

i said back in late May that i had more than gotten my moneys worth at that time and everything from then on was icing on a very good cake.

not perfect and am hoping for much added spices and condiments on chapter 2 but yes i am getting it.

Mimi Miyagi · Dec 01, 2005, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Well, you can look at the populaces "wealth" gap in a couple of different ways, depending on what you're trying to "prove"

80% has less than 20K in their storage. That means that out of 1 million players, 200,000 of them have more. That's a lot. But is 20K really that much of an indication? And just how much "more" do those 200,000 players have than 20K?

They don't say. It could be a million gold. It could be 21K.

A more interesting # would be how many GW players have an excess of 100K in their storage. But again, it's just an arbitrary number. Or, how many have 999K?

Players with that much money tend to convert their cash to commodities simply because commodities tend to hold their value. Black Dye, for example, has a fairly steady base sale price of about 8K or so. Yes, the price fluctuates, but over time, it's steady.

What I've been trying to get at is that the #s don't really reveal anything. The most "cash" I've ever had was about 140K, I spent it on 15K armor simply because I had nothing better to do with it.

People spend crazy amounts of gold on "stuff" only because they can afford it. They either were lucky at the beginning of the game, and won HoH and collected a storage full of sigils, or they spent a lot of time playing the commodities market, or they farmed twin serpent lakes for runes, or griffons for goodies. Or Globs/Shards solo. And it continues today, of course, even moreso despite ANet's best efforts to nerf solo farming. And that's not including the runners charging 30-50K a head, for "world tour" runs. Probably could make 100K a day easily just by running folks.

I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying, ok, this is the way the game is currently, is ANet going to provide an outlet for players beyond this in chapter 2? If the current level cap stays, the current professions don't gain any additional bonuses, better armor, weapons, goodies, skills (due to balance) - then is chapter 2 just going to be more areas to farm from, based on the current state of the game, and the greed displayed by the majority of the players?

What people keep failing to grasp - is that I'm asking what ANet can do BESIDES a level cap change to make chapter 2 not turn out to be sorrow's furnace x 20? If the activity for SF is any indication of what the future holds - it doesn't look good, from my perspective. I hope ANet has some tricks up their sleeves that we're not aware of that will keep that from happening.

That's all I'm really asking, and it's the point people fail to understand, and continually bash me instead of reading what I write.

Shrug.

Zaklex · Dec 01, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

(CUT)I'm not knocking it, I'm just saying, ok, this is the way the game is currently, is ANet going to provide an outlet for players beyond this in chapter 2? If the current level cap stays, the current professions don't gain any additional bonuses, better armor, weapons, goodies, skills (due to balance) - then is chapter 2 just going to be more areas to farm from, based on the current state of the game, and the greed displayed by the majority of the players?(CUT)

What you say above about is not entirely true, you can keep the level cap the same and still add in the following: better armor, weapons, goodies, skills, etc. How is this possible, by adding in items to Chapter 1 that are equivalent to the new items in Chapter 2, but what this won't solve is peoples ingrained thought process that they must have these things and therefore have to "grind" for them. I believe that the play style you see now is not a fault of the game design, but a fault of the players themselves to not see anything beyond the "want/need" factor. I could still be missing your point entirely in which case just ignore everything that I've said.

P.S. - I couldn't tell you what different things they can do in Chapter 2 than 1 if I wanted to.

Severra Timarre · Dec 01, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

What people keep failing to grasp - is that I'm asking what ANet can do BESIDES a level cap change to make chapter 2 not turn out to be sorrow's furnace x 20? If the activity for SF is any indication of what the future holds - it doesn't look good, from my perspective. I hope ANet has some tricks up their sleeves that we're not aware of that will keep that from happening.

Sorrows Furnace was one thing only. A set of new quests, with one gameplay change thrown in(the chests.)
Chapter 2 will have possibly a new race, 2 new professions, definately several hundred new skills, 2-3 sets of armor for the old professions, plus the new professions armor sets, new weapon types, which I said in my first post, which are DIFFERENT than the current ones in areas besides textures, but it can all still be balanced.

If you had any sense at all, you would realize that balance doesnt mean things stay the same as always. Just look at PvPX, how it really did rebalance the PvP game, and substantially changed the PvE game, even though the game had been balanced before, after PvPX, it was balanced differently.
Chapter 2 will do the same thing, except on an IMMENSELY larger scale, with NEW skills being added, rather than old skills being changed to do almost the same thing as before, the games paradigm will shift.

So really, Anet doesnt have to do anything that we havent guessed to make chapter 2 a success. Rebalancing the game, with 2 new professions, extra character slots, new skills, new armor, probably new damage types....

Character advancement isnt the end-all be-all of RPGs. The key to a good online RPG isnt grind, its allowing change to occur naturally, players to improve upon the way the game works, and to keep the balance fluid, not static.

You probably wont listen to me, since you seem to ignore most of my relevant points, but really, listen to yourself! They way you phrase your question makes increasing the level cap seem like the only logical solution.

It's not.

As long as chapter 2 removes the current status quo by doing what I've said before, 800,000 players besides your 200,000 grinders will enjoy the expansion, and most of those grinders will still buy the expansion, just because they obviously dont have anything better to do.

The chance of Chapter 2 being Sorrows Furnace 20x over is so small, it's non-existent. Even if theres just ONE new skill added, the entire balance of the game would shift dramatically, changing running, farming, soloing, etc, etc. (probably)
DISCLAIMER: This post has been shortened significantly to avoid rehashing points I already said in earlier posts. If you guys would all do the same, we might be able to have an even better discussion here.

Mimi Miyagi · Dec 01, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaklex

What you say above about is not entirely true, you can keep the level cap the same and still add in the following: better armor, weapons, goodies, skills, etc. How is this possible, by adding in items to Chapter 1 that are equivalent to the new items in Chapter 2, but what this won't solve is peoples ingrained thought process that they must have these things and therefore have to "grind" for them. I believe that the play style you see now is not a fault of the game design, but a fault of the players themselves to not see anything beyond the "want/need" factor. I could still be missing your point entirely in which case just ignore everything that I've said.

P.S. - I couldn't tell you what different things they can do in Chapter 2 than 1 if I wanted to.

Yeah, that's why I complain (whine?) so much about people getting all worked up over cosmetic changes. The cost difference between a "perfect" +30 health mod and a +28 health mod is ridiculous, yet people are willing to spend crazy money over insignificant things of that nature. I'm not the only one, of course, that views this greed as silly, but it's just the way things are.

The leveling treadmill has been ingrained in player's psyche since the dawn of the pen and paper game crowd. What made the difference wasn't in the goodies (the monty haul campaigns) but the story, the challenges, the quest, the traps, the social interaction, etc. If you were blessed with finding the right GM, you had a much better time making do with a +1 sword, instead of being handed a Mournblade or Stormbringer at level 3 (sorry, completely geekified old school gaming reference there).

BUT (huge but) the ultimate goal was to progress, not just enjoying the scenery. Progression meant newer spells. You couldn't wait to get to level 7 for Fireball - and then seeing it's power and destructive force grow as you went further up the levels. It didn't matter that the monsters got bigger, badder, more HPs, lower AC, multiple attacks to keep pace. It was still a rush to grab a handful of six sided dice and blasting 30+ points of damage instead of 4.

Yeah, it's a tried and true paradigm, comfortable, predictable. GW mimics some of these effects - the more attribute points you place (as you rise in levels) in your skill branches, you do more damage, spells/conditions last longer, healing is better, etc. But, once you've reached level 20, the progression stops. You'll never do more than 10 pips of degen with a skill. You'll never do more than (just a number) 140 points of damage with a lightning strike. Your armor won't absorb any more damage than it does now.

Arbitrary, absolutely. But if that progression isn't there, then something else must take it's place, or players won't feel satisfied simply because of the ingrained expectations they have. Your character must continue to evolve, or it become rote, stale, boring. In addition, as the game wears on, players become more efficient in their builds - their skills, their knowledge of the game mechanics, which simply amplifies the results.

A week ago, I took one of my characters though Defend Droknar's Forge with a PUG (which took about an hour to assemble due to lack of players at GC). Once we got started, we made it to mineral springs ok, but once people started to die, they abruptly quit. By the time we (all five of us) finished the quest - an hour and a half later, all of us at -45 DP or higher, we were spent.

I organized a guild trip to do that very same mission last night, and we blew though it in about 30 minutes or so. I had built up the trip as being extremely difficult, and long, and at the end everyone was saying "well, THAT wasn't hard at all".

Part of the reason why the guild trip went so well was communication and better teamwork, but a lot of it had to do with my prior knowledge of how to successfully tackle the monsters, and in what order, and where to go, and what to expect at the end. The same can be said of any mission in GW - they are almost mechanical now even with PUGs because most people have done them before - some multiple times.

It's one thing that saves GW for me - the social interaction of a good guild, not the game itself. If I wasn't in a guild with great folks, I'd have quit long ago. Believe me, I've been in "bad" guilds before, they're a nightmare.

But, that's just me.

Mimi Miyagi · Dec 01, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Severra Timarre

Sorrows Furnace was one thing only. A set of new quests, with one gameplay change thrown in(the chests.)
Chapter 2 will have possibly a new race, 2 new professions, definately several hundred new skills, 2-3 sets of armor for the old professions, plus the new professions armor sets, new weapon types, which I said in my first post, which are DIFFERENT than the current ones in areas besides textures, but it can all still be balanced.

If you had any sense at all, you would realize that balance doesnt mean things stay the same as always.

I have seen nothing since the game came out to lead me to believe anything different. I have heard nothing from ANet to make me believe anything will in the future. The constant nerfing hasn't been enough of a clue yet? What's the difference (retorical questions here) between a curse that does -3 degen, a hex that does -3 degen, a preparation that does -3 degen, a condition that does -3 degen?

I'm (finally) going to end this conversation (on my part) by saying "we'll see, I guess". Perhaps a year from now I'll be eating crow and taking a lot of abuse for how wrong I was. I hope so.

jesh · Dec 01, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

A prep can't be dispelled, and a curse and a hex are the same thing.

Vorlin, I'm glad you posted, sorry I didn't remember your name. I'm a lot like you, I feel without a cause if I don't have somebody to help out.

I wish they'd change the super-instanced nature of the game in the future, but if I made any suggestions, they sure wouldn't be educated ones.
I guess all we can do is hope and wait for Chapter 2.

Ado · Dec 02, 2005, 01:10 PM // 13:10

I named the title of this thread POSSIBLE problems/disappointments for a reason. I wanted to have a discussion on how things will be implemented in chapter 2 regarding level cap, balance issue's etc. As said by many ppl in this thread, there are a lot of ways on how to develop characters with lvl 20 staying max and how the expansion will be challenging. I myself for instance started thinking in a different way regarding characterdevelopment after a post by Loviatar (page 1). Anet is reading threads like these and might be influenced by some posts. Therefor it's more usefull to come with idea's on how to make chapter 2 a great expansion instead of assuming all kinds of negative things be4 it's even released. I'm sure that Anet is aware that with keeping lvl 20 being max, they have to do other things to make the expansion worthwile for the hardcore players who have done every single thing in chapter 1. Many things are possible. The more idea's we post and discuss about, the more likely it will be that Anet creates an expansion which be appealing to all of us.

Shadow Sword Strike · Dec 13, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Its all still speculation though.

I've never been disappointed with anything Arenanet have done to the game, I was blasted away by Haloween, I was expecting it to be good but not as good as that!

So I think your just going to have to put a little Faith in them... I know it would be nice to know NOW what it will be like.

I'm rather looking forward to the suprise and discovering it all for myself, without reading about it all on the forums first.

Once it is released and you try out all these things for yourself, only then can you determine if they solved the problems well or not. If they merely describe how they plan to get around the problems using text you can never really be sure until you have actually tried it for real, so it would all still be speculation.

Also, if they did manage to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO it all up then they are still very good at listening and fixing things, so I'm not worried about it at all.

i agree, wats the point in playing a game if you already know wats in it

Chrisdoan34 · Dec 13, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I find it really sad that a lot of people hate gw for the whole lvl 20 cap... like a lot of people said, it's all about skills(talent) and strategy. I also think that you guys, like Snowman said, have little faith in Anet. Chapter 2 keeps the story moving, i think it'll keep the PvE'er keep playing for sure because, hey, it'll be boring if you PvE but dont follow story. I'm sure as hell they'll make things A LOT better, because no one makes part 2 to a game worse than part one... it'd be a lost of time and money... items and armor? heh think about it... new places = new crafter = new armor and weapon... thats pretty much how it works... i actually wrote this in two parts so i kinda lost my train of thought... but i think i got the gist of things